Industry committee  I have to tell you that we are a long way...we are all enculturated in the Canadian culture—even at the university you come from—and what that means is, if we start talking about experiential learning, we don't know what we're talking about yet. All we know is that we need to move.

Industry committee  It is if you're in the university, and I've been associated with Waterloo as well. Waterloo is different because of co-op learning and because it has gone out to the employers—you've got to educate the employers too. It's told the employers that when they engage a co-op student, they have to know they're participating in the student's development, and they won't win out with the university if they just have the student sweeping the floors or something like that; they need to put students into situations.

Industry committee  Let me just mention one more thing that you may not know about. I talk about this around McMaster. I think the greatest experiment that has happened in the world happened in McMaster. It's called the McMaster University Medical Centre, the hospital and the medical school there. Why is it different?

Industry committee  I'm sorry. I just want to say there were no courses, no examinations, and you got an M.D. in three years. Very different from anywhere else, very experiential—

Industry committee  —because you're in the hospital right away.

Industry committee  I'm here because I care about Canada. I don't like the fact that we're slipping in our prosperity and that with all the knowledge we have we're not able to create value we can trade.

Industry committee  What can we do? There is a big cultural factor where the federal government plays a role. Look at the public funding that goes into the universities. I was the chair of the board of governors. I was on the finance committee of McMaster for probably 14 years. They didn't use GAAP, so I had difficulty reading the financials some of the time, but there was no doubt about where the money came from.

Industry committee  Yes. Let me start first by saying that in the prosperity of nations, Canada sits about thirteenth. We used to be in the top five; we're now down that low. The Americans remain in the top three all the time. All the other countries that have moved above us in the prosperity of nations are countries typically with a population of less than the province of Ontario.

Industry committee  I have to say that I'm green in this environment and I don't know where the translation is available to me.

Industry committee  I think it probably won't make a lot of difference, because it's relatively trivial. My experience of the tax credit has been that you're always unsure about whether you have the tax credit or not, so you operate as though you don't, and when it comes, it's a windfall. So it isn't a stimulus.

Industry committee  That's the big problem of the SR and ED, the uncertainty.

Industry committee  Yes, there are a couple of things. One of the things about some of the most famous universities in the United States, and not in all areas of business—there isn't a shoe that will fit all feet, in some respects—but in information technology and communications and so on, is that quite a number, and I know particularly of a number of cases, don't patent.

Industry committee  That's the end.

Industry committee  Thank you for the opportunity to be here. It's a new experience for me. I've been a global commercial guy all of my life, in knowledge-based commerce, and there are only three things I want to say today that have some impact or are impacted by how intellectual property is treated and handled.