Natural Resources committee  That's a fascinating question. I'm trying to think of an appropriate response. I completely agree that communication and understanding are a huge part of the issue, because I've lately been engaged in some of the pipeline debates in the United States and have observed the difference between information and misinformation in some of those debates.

Natural Resources committee  All I'd like to add to my earlier comments, Mr. Leef, is that if we look across the energy sectors, both renewables and non-renewables, they're all characterized by huge capital investments for energy generation, distribution, and delivery. Whenever you have that situation, you have a strong incentive to operate as efficiently as you can and to get every possible benefit out of the investment.

Natural Resources committee  My impression in the oil industry is that we're seeing growth, research, and investment in Alberta although I don't have the statistics in front of me. We're also seeing international groups interested in getting more involved in R and D on energy-related issues across the board.

Natural Resources committee  One of our theme areas under the Helmholtz initiative at the University of Alberta is working with German researchers on exactly that question of how to use geothermal energy. The Germans have been leaders in setting up some pilot facilities at which they actually have drilled wells we can use to collect data and do simulations.

Natural Resources committee  I can't comment on that specific question. All I can say is that the University of Alberta has been actively filling that gap.

Natural Resources committee  Our expectation, working with our partners at Imperial Oil, is that they will start construction of a major pilot plant next year for the non-aqueous extraction technology. It will take about a three-year cycle to build that, prove the technology, and see whether it's ready for large-scale commercialization.

Natural Resources committee  You're almost right. NSERC had a range of programs that we were able to use very effectively. Their research partnerships program was a general enabling program. The centre of excellence program is not run by NSERC. It's run by a different secretariat and the centre of excellence program has never particularly focused on oil sands throughout its history.

Natural Resources committee  The history we see in upgrading is that the technology has developed very slowly. The first plant that Suncor started in 1967 and an expansion they did in 2000 used basically the same suite of technologies. We've seen incremental improvements in upgrading, but we haven't seen major breakthroughs.

Natural Resources committee  What we're most excited about I think in the upgrading area is our new, very high activity catalysts. These materials are unprecedented, which actually raises a challenge in terms of getting them to commercialization. If those are successful it would dramatically cut the cost of producing high-quality synthetic crude oil from oil sands, probably by a third.

Natural Resources committee  I would agree, although it is important to keep in mind the timeframe for technological innovation. The history of the industry has been to develop better and better operating practices and better operating expertise, which drives down the energy intensity and drives down the water use, as Mr.

Natural Resources committee  Let me give you an example based on our work with researchers in Germany with the Humboldt institute. That's a partnership between the University of Alberta and the Helmholtz Association, which is the German equivalent of the National Research Council. We have teams of researchers from Canada and from Germany who are working on applying new technologies, particularly for land reclamation.

Natural Resources committee  My personal opinion is that you're exactly right. The challenge of course is how to set the strategy and how to make it successful. What we've seen of the history of upgrading of bitumen from the oil sands has shown us that in some cases it's been extremely successful and profitable.

Natural Resources committee  Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, for inviting me to participate by video conference this afternoon. I would like to bring my perspective as a university researcher and leader with a particular interest in energy research and development and significant activity in oil sands processing.