Veterans Affairs committee  It unequivocally requires an expertise. The cultural competency, the occupational awareness, the experience in working with this population—those are fundamental to care. That's our specialty. That's what drives our success. The best-laid plan is on paper, but if that interaction does not compute, does not engage, we often get one chance with this population; if it doesn't—

Veterans Affairs committee  Absolutely. I just think it needs to be integrated. It needs to be collaborative. It needs to be part of a process where the system is bringing in subject matter experts in the field to help improve care, whether that's the old system, which wasn't doing that very effectively, I would add, or the new system.

Veterans Affairs committee  With respect to the current cost increasing, I can't add if that's necessary or not, but I would agree one hundred per cent with you that programs exist. Help is out there. Subject matter experts all across the country are working with us to do this work and provide the care. I find that often we're not consulted and investments can be made in programs that are already happening, care that already exists and help that is already available.

Veterans Affairs committee  There are lots of providers. Who are they? There are, from what Patricia is saying, the OTs. The health care providing community is massive in Canada and provides supports for the population, and under our contract by VAC. So that's what I mean. There's—

Veterans Affairs committee  That's new. That's information to me. But, again, what I would say, Darrell, is to not look at the numbers so much as the outcomes and effects.

Veterans Affairs committee  Perhaps I could finish. Sometimes within every government, any government, any situation, it's all about the numbers and less about the effect. I would say that what we're talking about is wait times decreasing, the cultural competency. There are 9,000 providers. Wonderful. How many support uniformed service personnel on a daily basis?

Veterans Affairs committee  Always. I think every health care provider has the best interests of the veteran, or the uniformed service member or their family member in their care in mind. It just doesn't always mean they're providing it.

Veterans Affairs committee  I would say they haven't provided that, and they shouldn't provide it. They should rely on the subject matter experts in the field to do the work.

Veterans Affairs committee  It's in-house.

Veterans Affairs committee  That's correct.

Veterans Affairs committee  No.

Veterans Affairs committee  No.

Veterans Affairs committee  If you'll give me 30 seconds, I'll tell you that the veterans who come into our programs and our care usually are referred from a health care provider who is usually under the VAC contract. Of those conversations we're having with those members who are coming to us by way of a health care provider under the VAC contract, I would say, yes, the relationship in that referral-based network is improving.

Veterans Affairs committee  I was thinking about that today. It's a great question. I guess the only thing I could offer that would be a positive would be to answer “if things change”. It's impossible to say that something would be positive that just took effect. That would be irresponsible. But I would suggest that if change comes, that reduces the backlog in the system as a whole.

Veterans Affairs committee  Who's speaking? Is it Darrell?