Fisheries committee  Yes, I can speak most specifically to the west coast where we've done extensive analysis with both government, non-profit organizations, and other sectors on opportunities for protection. A lot of that information is there. What we're lacking are the drivers to get the process to analyze those in a decision context and move forward.

Fisheries committee  I don't think we as a nation or any nation has the money to do all the science that will answer all the questions. At some point we have to play that assessment of risk and what our objectives are in conservation and make decisions based on risk and probability. In some cases we won't know everything, but we know enough, I propose, that we can move forward on many areas in a productive way.

Fisheries committee  I think in the context of closures for the purpose of establishing a protected area, I believe that in the act, as it's written, the proposal now is that the minister can choose to cap an activity at a current level. I think whether it goes beyond that should really be tested against what the objectives for that marine protected area are.

Fisheries committee  I believe we have to look at this from a risk-assessment point of view. In the context of fisheries, we could have a bottom-trawling fishery that we know has a high probability of damaging bottom habitats. It may not always go to—

Fisheries committee  We view fisheries as an industrial activity. If you're looking at mining or oil and gas or those other things, we've looked at them through the lenses, and we know there is a probability of risk of a catastrophic event if it does go wrong. As we've seen with recent oil spills of the XL pipeline, which was built only seven years ago and which we were told had no risk, when a catastrophic risk from the major industry happens, you have to decide whether you want to bear that risk in the context of a marine protected area or not.

Fisheries committee  In the marine context, it depends on what your objectives are. If you're in an area of a high intensity of marine birds, those windmills may not be very amenable to the long-term survival of marine birds that migrate through those areas. In the marine context, we found that with regard to windmills, the biggest challenge came from the fishing sector, from the crab fishing sector, which felt that its biggest challenge was that operating in the context of those wind farms would impede its fishing opportunities at a level that was unacceptable.

Fisheries committee  On the macro scale the biggest impact we're having on the ocean is through climate change warming oceans and acidification, so you could say that's land-based; it's human activity. Aside from the pollution element of what we do to our oceans the single largest affect on our oceans is the removal of biomass from the system.

Fisheries committee  I have not at this point. We have done some post-mortem analysis on the previous PNCIMA process and the MaPP process on the B.C. coast, but I'd be happy to write down our thoughts on best practices and positive elements of the process that we learned from those initiatives and provide that to you.

Fisheries committee  I'll be happy to do that. In the context of minimum standards and protection, I think one of the key things to ensure in these processes and through the act is that objectives are set. This is where it relates back to our CBD targets or biodiversity targets, or other things where the minimum standards are affected by what you're actually trying to protect.

Fisheries committee  Could I just...?

Fisheries committee  Yes, I think the precautionary principle is essential. There's so much we don't know about ocean science. I wanted to raise the issue of adaptive management. We need this act to engage the opportunities for adaptive management from the process point of view, so that people can revisit this and look at this.

Fisheries committee  That's, again, something that we could all claim at some level, that things happen to all of us from government announcements and that we weren't involved in that exact conversation, but through representation, those sectors have been invited to every table I've been at.

Fisheries committee  No, it's a factor. If we as a country have objectives that we've signed on to that we are going to try to maintain biodiversity and meet other global objectives that nation—

Fisheries committee  I think the two play off. As an example, where I live on the south coast of British Columbia, I can't go fishing. I can't catch a lingcod. I can't catch a rockfish. I can't catch a salmon. There's no more salmon charter businesses on the Sunshine Coast where I live. They're all gone.

Fisheries committee  Yes, I agree. It's a very important piece of legislation, and with the amendments that have been proposed by many people, I think we can take it to that place where the escalating use and management of our oceans will be served by a better process.