Natural Resources committee  I don't think so. I think that the product coming out of the tar sands is every bit as good as Mexican Maya, which trades at a $4 premium to WTI. The only difference is it doesn't get stuck in Cushing, Oklahoma. So if we can get world oil prices, I don't think we need to worry about the upgrading.

Natural Resources committee  Well, I think what you want to look at very carefully is what's going on in North Dakota right now. They're producing 780,000 barrels, and a very small fraction of that has pipeline access. In fact, they're banking on the Keystone XL to pick up 100,000. I think that would be an interesting example to look at.

Natural Resources committee  First of all, Blaine, I would take issue, because WTI is not the North American price.

Natural Resources committee  If we had access, if Keystone XL actually went ahead and there was a physical arbitrage to the Gulf of Mexico, we would expect that the price differential between WTI and Brent would dissipate, because once oil got down to the gulf coast, it would be Light Louisiana Sweet, which is Brent plus one dollar.

Natural Resources committee  It's well intentioned, but I'm a market guy. I think if crack spreads say to build a refinery, then build a refinery, but if crack spreads don't say to build a refinery, then don't build a refinery. As I said in my earlier testimony, if we were able to get anything close to Brent, I think all of this discussion about refineries would dissipate, because the refinery is a way of capturing Brent through the crack spread, in other words through the margin between Western Canadian Select and the gasoline or diesel that the refinery produces.

Natural Resources committee  A price on carbon. I think a price on carbon is totally unnecessary. As I told Dr. Suzuki in our “travails” across the country, I'll take a global recession over a thousand Kyoto agreements. You see, we're not going to emit, I don't think, half of the carbon that the IPCC says.

Natural Resources committee  Norway is a totally different situation. I mean, the one thing Canada has going for it, which should never be underestimated, is that most places in the world have this curious idea that hydrocarbon assets should belong to the state. I'm not talking about Saudi Arabia or Venezuela; I'm talking about Mexico and Norway.

Natural Resources committee  Ms. Crockatt, you say that oil prices are declining. Are you aware that Brent averaged $112 last year? Are you aware that is an all-time high price for oil?

Natural Resources committee  Are you aware that—

Natural Resources committee  —gasoline prices in the United States average $3.50 a gallon, an all-time high, and yet you say that oil prices are declining? Well, I'll grant you, they ain't $200, but they're moving up.

Natural Resources committee  Well, it doesn't really matter what I think, because prices will do the heavy lifting. Tar sands are not a new discovery. The only thing new about the tar sands is that they're a commercially viable source of supply, let alone what the IEA calls the world's third largest oil reserve.

Natural Resources committee  That's the problem. Brent is what you need to get.

Natural Resources committee  Do you understand what I'm saying? Because it's really important to understand—

Natural Resources committee  Because I don't think you do understand that it's not a question of finding different markets.

Natural Resources committee  No, we're at.... Again, the problem—