Transport committee  They're facing a potential ban right now. This is before the Ontario Labour Relations Board. As I understand it, it was two unionized workers working on a Saturday, building a shed of all things, when their union filed the application for certification through the card check system.

Transport committee  I can comment very briefly on that. As an example, I do not know of one company in the electrical contracting business in Ontario that has any temporary foreign workers. Peers who are out west, specifically in the oil sands industry, have jobs on their job boards constantly. They need so many people that they can't fill those positions.

Transport committee  That is correct.

Transport committee  That's correct. There are many examples of this happening right across the province of Ontario with companies, and we are seeing it with municipalities now.

Transport committee  I think that we— Oh, sorry.

Transport committee  Whether you're an open-shop contractor or a closed-shop contractor on any project today, you have a defined scope of work that you have to follow. You have qualified people to do that work. You provide bid bonds and payment material bonds in order to ensure successful completion of that job, again, regardless of what your stripe is.

Transport committee  Pierre, I think I can, and Terrance can help me if I run into a problem here. It's no different from what's happening with Kitchener-Waterloo right now. The Province of Ontario brought in card-based certification, which basically requires that if they have 55%-plus of the employees doing work on the day that the application for certification is filed, that organization becomes unionized.

Transport committee  Once 50% are signed, they can have a vote. If they have 55% of the employees who have signed cards on the date that the application is filed, then it's automatic card-based certification.

Transport committee  —on a Saturday.

Transport committee  One thing you find which I think makes it more competitive in my industry, being open shop, is that there are no delineations, if you will. To give you a very easy example, I was an IBEW member for 15 years. Then I became an open-shop contractor. On projects that my people work on, we cross lines.

Transport committee  Yes, absolutely. We like to pride ourselves on our health and safety record. You would not be in business if you were not a safe organization. When it comes to being an open shop or a closed shop, all the rules apply to everybody. There are no studies that we've seen anywhere that would disprove that.

Transport committee  I can only speak to the construction sector, sir. I can tell you that the formalized training that electricians and apprentices go through in the province of Ontario is exactly the same, regardless of whether you are an open-shop tradesperson or a closed-shop tradesperson. I believe this is also true for virtually every other province in Canada.

Transport committee  We've never seen any studies that show that whatsoever. If I look at Manitoba, as I mentioned before, they have a 2:1 ratio, so two apprentices to one electrician. British Columbia has no ratios whatsoever. Alberta has other schemes where senior apprentices don't factor into the equation.

Transport committee  Good afternoon, and thank you for inviting me to be here today. It's my pleasure to have the opportunity to speak to you. I'm a local Ottawa electrical contractor and small business owner. There are many schemes that we have to contend with in the construction industry. Free and open tendering is a very important one that shuts us out of being able to bid on projects.