Human Resources committee  I will add that people from Videotron could tell you about the work that's being done outdoors during the dispute. Delocalization is definitely a much bigger problem than the anti-scab bill because we can't put the burden of protecting employment in Canada on workers' shoulders.

Human Resources committee  Our recommendation is to broaden the scope of the protection against scabs—against replacement workers. Dependent contractors are considered employees under the code, so that is not an issue here. The problem we have with the definition in the prohibition is that it allows for employers to continue working with their contractors during a strike.

Finance committee  I will answer your question about the “scissors clause”. This is the first time I have ever heard that expression. That's exactly what made chapter IX of the Quebec's pay equity legislation unconstitutional in 2004. That chapter allowed for certain employers to be exempted. Power was granted to the commission charged with pay equity cases.

Finance committee  I just want to reiterate exactly what has just been said. I agree. Except for the issue of retroactive payments in the maintenance phase—which we feel corresponds quite clearly to the problem that was raised before the Supreme Court and that was considered unconstitutional in Quebec legislation—implementing the legislation over time will reveal the shortcomings in the legislation.

Finance committee  Yes, of course.

Finance committee  We have been waiting for proactive federal legislation for a long time. There are proactive laws in some provinces and they work relatively well, except in some problematic cases, which we have had to take to court. We have known for decades that the pay equity dispute resolution mechanism before the courts does not work for employers or employees.

Finance committee  Good afternoon. I will be speaking in French. Thank you for inviting me to appear to speak to you on behalf of the 665,000 members of the Canadian Union of Public Employees (CUPE). Of course we welcome Canada’s pay equity legislation, which we hope will have a significant impact on 23,000 to 25,000 of our members who work in federally regulated industries.

Pay Equity committee  I would say don't reinvent the wheel. Everything is in there. There is language. There is a law that comes very close to those recommendations in Quebec, and it is available in English, so you can get inspiration there.

Pay Equity committee  I don't have up-to-date data. What we know, though, is that when the Quebec government finalized its exercise in 2006, there was a peak in economic growth that was identified by economists. It was actually beneficial to the economy.

Pay Equity committee  The Human Rights Commission surely has expertise on systemic discrimination because they also administer the Employment Equity Act. They do have some experience with proactive systems, but obviously we're talking about many more resources that would be needed there.

Pay Equity committee  Under-representation is addressed through employment equity, not pay equity. We already have legislation in place for that. It is proactive, in the sense that there is an obligation to put in place employment equity plans and to have a statistical analysis of your workforce to make sure that all the groups are properly represented.

Pay Equity committee  The act was adopted in 1996. It was put in force in 1997. But there was a chapter at the time that allowed for exemptions, and we contested the constitutionality of that. This took many years to resolve, and in 2004 there was a Superior Court decision declaring the exemption process unconstitutional.

Pay Equity committee  They could, but then the problem of personnel mobility might come up.

Pay Equity committee  v The obvious advantages are the expertise because this is quite technical and we do need expertise and people who will stay in their commission and not move elsewhere in other areas of investigative functions. Our experience in Quebec has been good with a specialized body to help the parties through this process.

Pay Equity committee  The question of cost comes up all the time. It's a legitimate concern. It depends upon whether you're talking about the cost of the process to implement pay equity or the cost of the redress or the pay adjustments. Obviously, the more women are being discriminated against, the more costly it is to redress that discrimination.