Natural Resources committee  If I may just quickly add to that. I was invited by Chris to begin to learn about how the Maori do things: how they have developed. I gave a lecture yesterday at a university, for example, and the Maori in the room were very interested to hear about first nations, the Métis and the Inuit of Canada.

Natural Resources committee  I would first say the exact same thing that I say to the communities in Ecuador, “It's your decision.” They should do what they like, and they have that freedom of choice that is their own. I would encourage them to explore the opportunities, to understand the life cycle of the industry from start to finish and to engage in these conversations with an open heart and open mind, but also with the knowledge or support of being able to understand what's being spoken about.

Natural Resources committee  I think that growth rate is 20% to 30% versus 2% to 3% nationally here.

Natural Resources committee  If I may just add, it's also in the DNA of North American indigenous people. If you go right back to the fur trade, when we were providing furs to the Hudson's Bay Company, you'll see it is very much in our DNA, as well. If you could fast-forward a few hundred years, one of the things that's inspiring me to return to Canada is this revival of indigenous entrepreneurship.

Natural Resources committee  There are a couple of problems. Most definitely education is important—encouraging the youth to travel internationally and to return. It's also important to give them equity stakes—a valued interest. Giving them a seat at the board table, with an equal voice to those of the other members, is incredibly important.

Natural Resources committee  Thanks, Kent, for your question. I think it's a very valid one. Again, I'm going to take it out of the province of Alberta and speak with an international voice. I think we've all seen the power of sovereign wealth funds. If you look at what Norway and a number of countries have done in the energy sector, those funds are most definitely a very astute way of accumulating and growing capital for future generations.

Natural Resources committee  I will just add some context for the individuals who haven't had an opportunity to visit New Zealand. Here the Maori culture is very much integrated into the country. All of the place names are in Maori. There are Maori universities and Maori schools, and this is just a normal thing.

Natural Resources committee  In Ecuador, the indigenous communities have absolutely no rights. They have no mineral rights. They have their settlements and communities, but besides getting government benefit and social insurance, there really is no support for the communities there. It's obviously difficult for them to champion their own development if they don't have the access to these resources and if they don't have the support of the wider government as well.

Natural Resources committee  If I may start, first of all, in the spirit of the topic of the committee, I'm going to leave aside the Eagle Spirit pipeline specifics and answer your question directly. Should indigenous peoples be consulted in the creation and development of policy as well as when they put shovels in the ground?

Natural Resources committee  I'll go first. I don't think there is anything in any of the evidence I've heard, either in my previous session or in what I've heard through listening online to the other sessions. What really drove me to connect with the committee is that I feel that sometimes it's difficult to have a purely international view.

Natural Resources committee  What you see at conferences focused on a specific subject—as I've seen in New Zealand—is that the first session is with the youth, who are encouraged to present their ideas and to lead the conference, in a way. I think that's really important. For example, in one community I saw in Ecuador, there were two individuals who left the community and went to the city to be educated as lawyers.

Natural Resources committee  Thank you, everybody. It's a pleasure to appear in front of you again. I'm calling in from Rotorua in New Zealand. I'm here with Chris Karamea Insley, who is one of the advisers to Canative Energy. I requested to appear again before the standing committee just because this is a topic that I feel very, very strongly about.

Natural Resources committee  I'm a testament to having education and scholarships, people in the community pushing you to pursue further education. I am very grateful for that. If I did not have the late Herb Belcourt, who supported me through my journey, I would not be here speaking to you right now. But I think it goes to very many different levels.

Natural Resources committee  Let me be completely transparent. Equador is not a model of best practices for indigenous people and the energy industry. There are still a lot of problems. I cannot think of any country in the world where things are working perfectly and everybody is happy. I think you may have some future witnesses from New Zealand, which I see as a front-runner, but there are still many issues in that country as well.

Natural Resources committee  I think that's a very valid and big question. To reiterate, I have learned three keys in Ecuador. First is diversifying income streams, making sure the community is not wholly dependent on the energy industry and the income gained from that industry. Second is making sure they have capabilities, not just the individual technical people who are being trained, but that in the community as a whole, everyone from the younger members, five years old, up to the elders are learning more about business and are able to grow that source of knowledge.