Justice committee  I can say that on a regular basis—probably once a month—we will turn somebody's account off, reach out to them and give them the name of a contact. It is something that we take seriously and do regularly, but I don't have numbers.

Justice committee  Thank you.

Justice committee  The only thing I would add to what Mr. Lawson has said is that it's quite unique. We have many tracks that are in big urban settings and employ a lot of people, but we're also massive job generators in the rural communities. Also, I'd be remiss if I did not again address an earlier question on how COVID has hit the industry.

Justice committee  It's a very serious issue and one that we take very seriously. The first most important thing is to address the black market and the grey market. People who are wagering offshore do not have the protections that we think the licensed industry has. We have our employees always taking this front and centre.

Justice committee  Yes. I can't speak to the nuances of your House rules, but what we're very simply asking is this. Bill C-218 deleted a paragraph, and we're asking that this just be amended. It is paragraph 207(4)(b). We're asking that the language, as very specifically set out in Bill C-13, be adopted and dropped into Bill C-218.

Justice committee  We don't have a great estimate. The grey market and the black market do not publish their numbers. We just know that anecdotally I can go on my computer and I can find 10, 12, maybe 13 sites that are selling the Woodbine, the Hastings or the Trois-Rivières signal illegally, and people are making bets through those sites and not paying anything into the system.

Justice committee  Just to clarify, the number that is bet parimutuelly in Canada, legally through the CPMA, is $1.2 billion today. We believe that if Bill C-218 were to come in unamended, there could be fixed-odds wagering legal in Canada and perhaps as much as half of that parimutuel number, $600 million, could disappear and the industry would not benefit from that handle number.

Justice committee  We know that the $1.2 million is the true number from the CPMA. Our estimate that half of that could go away is really looking at foreign markets and using Australia as the example. Mr. Lawson said earlier today that there fixed-odds wagering has actually surpassed parimutuel wagering.

Justice committee  Yes. Today, the parimutuel model wagers about $1.2 billion that is legal and goes through the CPMA. We're aware that there is a significant grey market area offshore where wagers go. We would be very concerned if Bill C-218 came in unamended and fixed-odds wagering on horse racing were allowed.

Justice committee  Good morning, Madam Chair and members of the committee. My name is Bill Ford, and I'm here today on behalf of Racetracks of Canada. I appreciate the opportunity to speak. Racetracks of Canada is a national organization representing over 40 racetracks across the country. Some are large like Woodbine in Toronto, but the majority are smaller seasonal tracks that play vital roles in their respective communities, many of which are in rural Canada.