Justice committee  I can go back to my research, but there is also extensive research on access to health and social services for sex workers all over the country. There are a lot of reasons. There are passive barriers as well as active barriers that come in the way. Passive barriers might be things like the geographic location of the place, or the hours they're open, or the fact that they are only for a specific gender, which might make it difficult for people to access those services.

Justice committee  Thank you. That's a great question. Those are big questions. I will do my best to tell you, and maybe I won't go into the research.... First of all, I will send all of the research. I will submit a brief, as well as all of the literature I mentioned. It's very diverse. The issue with the police and people not trusting the police is very complex.

Justice committee  The current laws, because they criminalize clients, make it more difficult for sex workers to negotiate the consensual interaction they will have with their clients. That can mean that they make it more difficult to negotiate safer sex measures such as condom use. They can make it more difficult.

Justice committee  For people who work outdoors, those specifications, if you think about them, say that there are extra penalties, even, for people who are, as you mentioned, working or communicating around prostitution close to day cares, schools and churches. If you think about it, those are most places in a city.

Justice committee  In my opinion, the best outcome of this review would be to take a hard look at the evidence that has been produced by researchers and the feedback that has been received from sex workers. I do hope that you will hear from many more sex workers who are currently working and who are the main stakeholders in this issue.

Justice committee  I don't want to comment on something I'm not an expert on. My research area is sex work, not human trafficking. However, I am not sure that increasing these penalties has really improved the situation of victims of human trafficking. I also want to mention that legislation that puts sex workers at risk does not help victims of sexual exploitation or victims of human trafficking, because it puts everyone at risk.

Justice committee  My Ph.D. is on the Winnipeg situation. I can talk about the situation in Quebec, but not with as much certainty.

Justice committee  I think that this legislation is based on the idea of ending demand, as was mentioned, and it still criminalizes parts of the sex trade. It still criminalizes clients and sex workers in many ways. I think that as long as there's criminalization of the sex trade, we're going to see poor health outcomes and social outcomes.

Justice committee  Thank you very much. You are right, the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act was implemented in response to the Bedford decision. Unfortunately, the intention behind the Bedford decision was not followed. I am not a legal expert, but this is my opinion. As I explained earlier, sex workers—that is, people who sell sexual service—are still considered criminals.

Justice committee  Thank you. That's very kind. I was in a bit of a rush when I got here. One thing I want to say is that my research shows there's a climate of stigmatization in Winnipeg. There's also a history of hostility in this regard to sex workers' perspectives in a way that falsely opposes sex their rights to the necessary protection of the victims of sexual exploitation and human trafficking.

Justice committee  If you're asking me whether the law has made things safer for sex workers, it has not. There is research that has been done on this in public health. For example, there's research from 2019, with 299 participants, that found 26.4% of respondents indicated negative changes to their working conditions since the enactment of PCEPA.

Justice committee  Yes, I'm so sorry. Thank you. This was the most devastating result from my research. About 30 out of 49 people told me that they wanted to be treated like human beings. This is how terribly we are failing sex workers in our communities, in our programs, in our policies and in our laws.

Justice committee  Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. Good afternoon, everyone. I'm happy that I was finally able to join. I'm here to share some insight from the research I conducted on sex work in Winnipeg, Manitoba, over the last decade. I completed a Ph.D. in community health sciences at the Max Rady College of Medicine at the University of Manitoba in 2020.

Justice committee  Good afternoon. I just want to make sure the mike works.