Information & Ethics committee  It's about the transparency or lack thereof.

Information & Ethics committee  I'm sure it was. They are excellent in this field. I want to repeat, my concerns were not with their methodology, it was with the government's lack of transparency in letting the public know what they were doing.

Information & Ethics committee  Yes, I will confirm that.

Information & Ethics committee  Having specific limits placed on use is absolutely critical. If you don't identify what the primary purpose or main use of the data collection is, secondary uses always arise. We can use it for this purpose or that purpose. A whole series of beneficial uses could be contemplated—

Information & Ethics committee  Of course. How do we know what restrictions have been placed on the use of the data by PHAC or others in government? We know nothing. That's why looking under the hood by the federal Privacy Commissioner and auditing all of this is absolutely essential.

Information & Ethics committee  The way in which these kinds of data are put together—as you mentioned, millions of people versus small communities—obviously if you have a very small community, it leads to the identifiability of those in that community. That's always a concern. That's why, again, you should always involve the federal Privacy Commissioner, who can examine all of that and make sure that the proper protections have been put into place.

Information & Ethics committee  I would have to look at it hands-on. Telus data for good does amazing work. I have looked at Telus' work in other areas in terms of their de-identification of data and aggregation. They do an excellent job, so I agree with Dr. El Emam, who is the expert in this area, that they are doing it properly.

Information & Ethics committee  May I add very quickly that Telus for good is excellent. I have no problem with that at all.

Information & Ethics committee  That always makes me laugh. That could have been the motto of the Stasi police and the Third Reich, because they would tell people, “If you have nothing to hide, what's wrong with the state knowing everything about you?” It is absurd. It's the exact opposite of freedom. Please, let us preserve our freedom.

Information & Ethics committee  That's what I would object to. As I mentioned, after 9/11 it was the same kind of thing.

Information & Ethics committee  The measures that were introduced during 9/11 were intended to end after the emergency was over. They didn't. It's always a concern with measures that are introduced during something like a pandemic or an emergency situation, ensuring that they will no longer continue afterwards.

Information & Ethics committee  I would want to be able to work with.... For example, the Telus for good program is excellent at de-identifying and protecting data. They have privacy by design certification. I'd want to work with them and with the government to see how we can make some uses of beneficial information while completely preserving our privacy or perhaps introducing synthetic data.

Information & Ethics committee  We have to get serious about getting the messaging out about privacy and the measures that need to be invoked at the time when the technology is introduced. A lot of people want to protect their home, so they have all kinds of measures to do that, but it often intrudes upon their neighbour's privacy, because the cameras capture information not just from that household but also from those around it.

Information & Ethics committee  I think public trust is essential, in terms of building it, because it is fleeting right now. That concerns me so much. In the past, when I used to go and speak to public groups, I would have to explain why privacy was important and why I thought they should care about it. I don't have to do that anymore.

Information & Ethics committee  I was commissioner during 9/11, and obviously it was enormously troublesome, but when 9/11 ended.... You see, during a crisis—a pandemic, an emergency—there are emergency measures that can be introduced to put the privacy laws on hold. The problem is that after the pandemic or emergency ends, often those emergency measures continue.