Information & Ethics committee  I have nothing further to add, but I will use that time to recommend the work of Simone Browne in reference to Mr. Green's earlier comments on racial justice. She wrote a book called Dark Matters, which traces biometric surveillance back to trans-Atlantic slavery and the branding of slaves.

Information & Ethics committee  To my knowledge, I don't think we got a response, but I'll double-check with my colleague Kate Robertson and we can follow up with you.

Information & Ethics committee  As parliamentarians, the first thing you could do and our first recommendation is to launch an inquiry, essentially, or a national commission into these technologies. For the purpose of this committee, my recommendation was a moratorium on facial recognition, but in that report we actually called for a moratorium on all algorithmic policing technologies pending the results of that inquiry, whether it's a national commission or a judicial inquiry, to do a much more in-depth constitutional and human rights analysis than we were able to do within our reports, so that you actually are able to lay out the contents of what's appropriate and what's not and what safeguards are required, and then actually implement them.

Information & Ethics committee  That's a great question. If you're looking at Clearview AI, I believe it was several dozen that were testing Clearview AI. However, for the purposes of our report, in terms of who were really using it, we found that it was the Toronto Police Service and the Calgary Police Service.

Information & Ethics committee  Absolutely. Thank you. In terms of capitalizing on public space, this is something we are definitely concerned about. Amazon Ring is actually the poster child for that. To my knowledge, it has not come up here yet. Again, Professor Thomasen can speak more to this. I think Amazon Ring was looking at Windsor at one point.

Information & Ethics committee  I think when it comes to improving PIPEDA, the number one thing, the most important thing that I think a lot of privacy advocates have been calling for since the creation of PIPEDA, is to fix the enforcement piece. There are a lot of cases where PIPEDA, in terms of its legal content and what it does and doesn't allow, would not in fact allow the activity that occurs.

Information & Ethics committee  I will start with three recommendations. The first one is that if law enforcement is considering adopting facial recognition technology or algorithmic policing technology, it's a very real option for them not to engage with a commercial vendor at all. For example, Saskatchewan Police's protective analytics lab built all of their technology in-house, specifically to avoid these kinds of problems and being beholden to proprietary interests.

Information & Ethics committee  I think we thought he was done. Maybe we'll try again in the next round.

Information & Ethics committee  Thank you very much for that question. I'm just trying to compile all my thoughts, because there are many issues that could fall under the umbrella you set out. The first point I would make is that you're absolutely right in tracing that line. That's something we heard from a lot of the racial justice activists we talked to in the research for our report.

Information & Ethics committee  I know that the European Union has been doing a lot of work in this area. They would be one jurisdiction, to start. Also, the U.S. cities that I mentioned, particularly in California and Massachusetts, have been engaging in bans, moratoria and various frameworks of regulations to different degrees of strictness.

Information & Ethics committee  Without more context around that statement, it might be somewhat broad to say facial recognition technology inherently means the end of freedom.

Information & Ethics committee  In terms of filling in some details, I imagine you might be talking about the three billion images captured by Clearview AI. In some respects, you could say it's too late in the sense that Clearview AI is already out there, they've already set up shop, they've sold contracts to all these police agencies, and even if they are no longer in Canada, they're still working in other countries.

Information & Ethics committee  I think that would be true in a lot of cases, yes.

Information & Ethics committee  That is great question. Algorithmic technologies can be very broad, depending on what level you're defining them at. In our report we defined algorithmic policing technologies specifically. If you think about it, an Excel spreadsheet could potentially be an algorithmic technology, in the sense that it relies on algorithms.

Information & Ethics committee  That's correct.