Justice committee  I do think that's an area for growth. Accountability becomes important when we talk about the use of discretion, so the fact that keeping that data is optional can be seen as problematic. I think it's a step forward, but perhaps not far enough. The corresponding question then becomes who has access to that data when we talk about the use of police referrals or warnings.

Justice committee  No. I know that locally we've been fighting to get some data standards for how we capture disaggregated race-based data. If we think about the entry points for data, these are typically with police or corrections, so I think we're missing an entire segment by not having people self-identify at the courthouse or having some accountability by having lawyers give clients the opportunity to self-identify.

Justice committee  No, but I think it's part of the answer. I think we need more upstream responses, but we certainly support this bill as part of the answer. This problem is so complex that we're not going to address it solely at the sentencing stage, but it doesn't mean that we're relieved of our obligations at the sentencing stage when people's liberty is at risk.

Justice committee  Maybe the best example to give you is the Anderson case. A young Black man was pulled over at a random checkstop with a prohibited firearm. Members in his community around him were dying through gun violence. He armed himself not to commit substantive offences but to protect himself.

Justice committee  Thank you for the question. One of the arguments we put forward in Anderson, which I think is important to remember, is that the law itself has been used as a tool to oppress people of African descent, and particularly African Nova Scotians, for centuries. This is obviously a complex problem that resides not only in justice, but we do need a justice response, because in part this is a justice problem.

Justice committee  As I think people have previously testified, serious offenders will still go to jail, but what it does is give judges the opportunity to impose sentences that are community-based for those who don't need to go to jail. In particular, we know that when you go to jail as a Black person, you're not going to have culturally informed programming.

Justice committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good afternoon. My name is Brandon Rolle, and I'm the senior legal counsel at the recently established African Nova Scotian Justice Institute. I'm pleased to speak today in support of Bill C-5, which we see as a necessary step towards justice. African Nova Scotians are a distinct people who descend from free and enslaved Black planters, Black Loyalists, Black refugees, maroons, and other Black people who inhabited the original 52 land-based Black communities in that part of Mi'kma'ki known as Nova Scotia.