Fisheries committee  Yes. Thank you. Similar to Dr. Pardo, I think we were seeing these signs for years that the stock was going to continue to decline at current harvest levels. That is what we saw year after year, until finally the latest science showed that it was at the lowest level ever recorded, with very few larger fish and also very little of the necessary recruitment.

Fisheries committee  I'll mention that I believe it was 2015 when DFO first established a rebuilding plan working group. I believe that group met at least four times a year. Then there are also the advisory committee meetings, which normally happen once a year. Then there are also biannual stock assessments.

Fisheries committee  Yes, we're also comfortable with the science. Our role isn't always to just take everything that the DFO does as truth; obviously, we play a critical role in terms of the DFO as well. With regard to the science, we've been watching it for a number of years. As I mentioned, it's very robust; it's based on a lot of different scientific evidence that's been confirmed year over year and also by U.S. scientists as well.

Fisheries committee  I'm sorry; it wasn't me, but at the last DFO assessment, where we're participants at the science advisory table, like industry and indigenous groups, one of the changes that was made was a change with regard to natural mortality to take into account some of the observations that harvesters were seeing.

Fisheries committee  As it relates to mackerel in Atlantic Canada, I would say at the moment we've invested a lot in the impacts of climate change in Atlantic Canadian fisheries—

Fisheries committee  I'm not sure that's relevant, but I'd be happy to have you look through our financial records. We have invested and put out publications that you can read online—everything is available to the public—on the impacts of climate change on fisheries. We've also invested in looking at how seabirds are perhaps used as indicators of forage fish status.

Fisheries committee  Well, of course we have to take into account current information in terms of assessing the current status of the mackerel, so I'm looking forward to seeing the most recent results from DFO as well as the stakeholder observations, but again, I'm basing my testimony on a decade's worth of evidence from multiple sources that indicates a severe decline in mackerel, and we do expect to still see fish in the water.

Fisheries committee  Thank you for the question. Oceans North is a Canadian charity. We work closely with harvesters and indigenous communities. We don't represent fishermen; we are an environmental charity. As I mentioned in my statement, we work alongside fishermen. I've been at the table with harvesters since at least 2015, talking about the difficult issue of the mackerel declines and trying to come up with solutions.

Fisheries committee  I'm sorry. Are you asking, if we can't find any mackerel, what would be the assessment of the state of the stock?

Fisheries committee  We base our decisions on consultation with DFO as well as harvesters. Over the last decade, we've been involved in the science process alongside industry. Those discussions and assessments have taken into account many indicators of mackerel health, including egg surveys and information from the fisheries such as size, length and catches.

Fisheries committee  Our organization has been advocating that DFO take climate change into account. We definitely agree on that fact. That question has been put to DFO a lot over the last several years in terms of whether or not they need to change the timing of the egg survey. From the extensive analysis they've done, my understanding is that at the moment the egg survey is timed more specifically to day length and to a suitable range of temperatures in the gulf.

Fisheries committee  No, not at all. I think that fishermen's observations and accounts are very important. That's why, again, we've sat at the table with them, specifically working on objectives in the rebuilding plan and specifically working on different management measures that we could take into account to rebuild the stock—

Fisheries committee  We invest in a lot of science throughout the country. In particular, we're looking at—

Fisheries committee  Thank you. Thank you very much for inviting me to participate today. I'm joining from Mi’kma’ki, and I'm here representing Oceans North, a Canadian charity that supports marine conservation and sustainable fisheries in partnership with coastal and indigenous communities. I started working on mackerel in 2014 when the TAC, the total allowable catch, was set at 10 times more than DFO's scientific advice and the stock was already critically depleted.