Canadian Heritage committee  They're global monopolies that should—

Canadian Heritage committee  I'm just going to quote here that, since 2012, private conventional TV has been a big money loser for nine years straight. They've lost.... In 2019, it was 7.0%; in 2020, it was 18.6%; and last year they lost 12.4%. These losses are real to our members. We love to hate—I'm going to say it again—Bell, Rogers and Shaw, but they're not so rich that we should just assume they're going to continue to fund local news as they continue to lose money.

Canadian Heritage committee  The numbers are there. They're losing money.

Canadian Heritage committee  The last time I checked, Facebook and Google were also doing very well, so—

Canadian Heritage committee  Thank you. Facebook and Google are global monopolies. As big as Rogers and Bell are, Facebook and Google still have to pay their fair share to support Canadian media.

Canadian Heritage committee  Thank you for the question. I would ask why the broadcasters shouldn't be included. We applaud the government for making this bill platform-agnostic. Facebook and Google profit from broadcast news just the same as from print journalism. Also, just to echo Professor Owen's comments, pitting the smaller journalist organizations against the bigger journalist organizations is counterproductive in this forum.

Canadian Heritage committee  As I think another witness said already, there's no one-stop solution to the fundamental problems that journalism is facing right now. Yes, a news fund, I think, is a great idea. I think the Public Policy Forum is working on a proposal to expand the LJI news fund to also include philanthropy and other governments chipping in.

Canadian Heritage committee  I'm no expert on those criteria, sorry.

Canadian Heritage committee  I think we saw Facebook try to flex its muscle in Australia, and we saw how that ended up for them. This is exactly why we're in this position, because these companies have so much marketplace power and it just shows the abuse of power that has to be stopped. Bill C-18, I think, is one step toward levelling the playing field.

Canadian Heritage committee  Exactly. I don't think Unifor is saying who should be included. The QCJO designation sets out the great standards, and the CRTC is also going to have some leeway to allow for inclusivity.

Canadian Heritage committee  Thank you for the question. We do say “eligible news outlets”, and the QCJO is a known quantity of what makes an eligible news outlet. This bill also gives the CRTC the ability to expand on that and include those who aren't eligible under the QCJO terms. That includes broadcasters and podcasters.

Canadian Heritage committee  I could go on and on.

Canadian Heritage committee  As I said in my original statement, it's almost too late. We look at the big papers like the Toronto Star, the Globe and Mail, the Toronto Sun. Before I got here, we looked at those numbers. The Toronto Star was I think 600 and change and is now down to 178 members. That's over 500 members who walked out the door in the last 10 years.

Canadian Heritage committee  Journalism is extremely expensive, and investigative journalism is expensive. What we see is just less of it. The papers are smaller, and the news online is less. I think our newspapers are doing a tremendous job pivoting to the new digital realities, but there's just less. There's less investigative news; there are fewer stories.

Canadian Heritage committee  Imagine a world without news. Imagine the void. Now imagine you can do something about it. Thank you.