Finance committee  I think, again, if we go to that concern, we need to grow our economy. We need to keep up with other countries. Between inflation and COVID, etc., we have seen a decline in productivity, and we have seen a decline in our economy, yes.

Finance committee  I'm not sure if that was a question or a statement, to be honest. I think there are lots of factors that have led to that spending. I would have to go into such detail that I would go well over all of our time here to get into that, but I do think you have to subtract somewhat the cost of COVID.

Finance committee  I think if you go back to something we said about the necessity.... When you have to use carbon for necessity, that needs to be addressed, whether that's heating oil, which has not been used in this part of the country for years—I remember we used it when I was a kid—whether that's natural gas, or whether that is those who use electricity to heat their homes.

Finance committee  I'd love to give you some very specific examples of that. There are a couple of things. CentrePort was already brought up as one, obviously. A lot of the past trade corridor money has gone to the end of the trade corridor, including into the ports and some rail infrastructure, etc.

Finance committee  I'm going to go back to something we said earlier about the need for a level playing field. If you set bars too high, it makes them unachievable. I'll give you just a very quick example. If you open a trucking company in Ohio, you have to give zero days of holidays. If you open one here, you have to give two weeks.

Finance committee  [Technical difficulty—Editor] more houses. There are some economic factors that are contributing to that—inflation and borrowing rates, obviously interest rates. That needs to be addressed immediately. Without that housing crisis being addressed, at all levels all along the housing continuum....

Finance committee  Stats are stats. There's a short answer for you.

Finance committee  The important thing about the carbon tax is, obviously, to balance environmental issues. I clearly understand what you're saying about the level playing field. We need a level playing field. That said, it's not a race to the bottom in terms of who can emit the most, so—

Finance committee  I clearly understand where you're going with your question. My point is that, in provinces like Manitoba and Quebec, we have hydroelectricity with the cleanest inputs possible. What we're looking for on the carbon tax is for those who must emit carbon, i.e., farmers. When you use it for your heating, etc., you must do that, versus those who have the ability to lessen greenhouse gas.

Finance committee  I'm one of those Canadians living with a disability. I have a hearing issue. I'm sorry. I didn't understand.

Finance committee  Anecdotally, I heard we are 2% of.... What they do in two hours, we do in a year.

Finance committee  Absolutely, we are 100% in agreement with that. We are part of a larger coalition that supports the removal of interprovincial trade barriers. We all know how much those cost us. We all know that they're essentially free, but would impact certain products and certain businesses and industries.

Finance committee  The short answer is that we absolutely would agree with the statements that were made previously. As interest rates go up and the government starts to refinance debt, debt service costs go up. That means less money to put into social programming, health programming, things for poverty and housing, economic reconciliation and so on.

Finance committee  We do not have a direct policy on that. However, we are encouraging the provincial and federal governments to make a deal here in the province to incentivize high emitters to reduce that. That's not the necessary emitters. That's the high emitters.

Finance committee  Yes. That absolutely would be something we would support, but I think it needs to go on two fronts. One is to look at the existing points system. It needs to be employer-driven. I'm not talking about the humanitarian side of immigration. I'm talking about the economic side. There needs to be a direct correlation not just with what the labour market needs but with what specific employers need.