Public Accounts committee  I was getting very quickly to wrapping up my point, but these are the four pillars that organizations need to consider as they embark on digital transformation projects. The other thing I would love to leave this committee with is that we know Canadians are eager to interact with their government and to access government services on a digital basis.

Public Accounts committee  There are a couple of things I can share for consideration of the committee. We have a whole stream around cloud economics, so understanding how you build and then how you optimize that over time is a process for most organizations. When an organization starts to migrate workloads to the cloud, and that could be our cloud or other clouds, you generally see the initial stages of that really spiking in cost.

Public Accounts committee  No, we are not an indigenous company. There may have been employees who were indigenous who worked on the project, but I can't say yes or no.

Public Accounts committee  We do in Canada, but I don't recall that number off the top of my head.

Public Accounts committee  That would be a good ballpark, but I'm honestly not sure.

Public Accounts committee  We don't have this ability on what the overall scope of work was that Dalian was hired to do by the Government of Canada. There could have been a much broader scope of work that included other potential elements that were delivered as part of their contract with the Government of Canada.

Public Accounts committee  They didn't have a procurement vehicle to buy cloud.

Public Accounts committee  That's correct.

Public Accounts committee  I think you are pointing to some of the elements of why having really good procurement policies in place is really important. Having appropriate practices and policies in place to buy the technology that you need is an extremely important element in thinking about any digital transformation initiative, whether you're a government or a private sector enterprise.

Public Accounts committee  It's very simple to perform that. I'm happy to do that.

Public Accounts committee  We don't operate under a task authorization system, so no, we wouldn't be able to produce it. It's not how our work is engaged.

Public Accounts committee  I would have to see what we still have. The work we did with Dalian was over five years ago now.

Public Accounts committee  Yes. The initial program of work was really related to a migration that had nothing to do.... They needed assistance—

Public Accounts committee  They needed assistance with migrating workloads to the cloud. That support was provided. It is less than $100,000 of work that we can identify as being related to ArriveCAN. It was a very minimal amount of work.

Public Accounts committee  It is available—