Canadian Heritage committee  I think you're right. The issue of peer-to-peer as a technology I'm not sure we have looked at as the focal point of copyright policy, in the sense of saying that the technology is the problem. In a sense, peer-to-peer technology, as we understand it, is a file-sharing mechanism and can't speak to whether the content is infringing or non-infringing.

Canadian Heritage committee  I have to say I'm not aware of pushes that target that technology as such. If we want to look historically at Bill C-60, if you look at the Internet service provider provisions, for example, we crafted a notice and notice regime in part because we thought that was a better way for ISPs to participate, to address peer-to-peer technology.

Canadian Heritage committee  The issue is one of correlation and how you relate all the factors that may contribute to the well-being of a particular industry in a particular economic environment. We try as best we can to get data on the impact of our policy choices, but again, establishing a correlation is a very tricky thing, a very dangerous game.

Canadian Heritage committee  I think what I'm trying to suggest is that it is very hard to look at the profits or losses of any particular industry and try to attribute those to a particular policy choice, because there are so many factors. To give you an example, if one industry may not do so well, is it because of copyright policy or is it because of the availability of other substitutes in the marketplace that may be taking its place?

Canadian Heritage committee  There are two steps. One is the implementation of the rights and protections found in the WIPO treaties. The question of ratification is a distinct step the government will take and will have to assess, whether as a result of the amendments it's brought forward, if it is in a position to ratify.

Canadian Heritage committee  May I add something from the point of view of Industry Canada? I will have to check to see whether I can provide that information. As Danielle said, I certainly can't commit on behalf of the minister's office. I would be a little mindful of wanting to respect whatever feelings the people who've contacted us may have about their contact with us and whether there would be any dereliction on my part if I disclosed that.

Canadian Heritage committee  I would like to clarify that we have not met with any groups to discuss future legislation. At this point we have met with groups, or groups have asked to speak to us on the things that led up to Bill C-60, and we've certainly had a number of groups reacting to us about Bill C-60.

Canadian Heritage committee  In response to the heritage committee's request, the government tabled a statement in March 2005 that tried to outline conceptually, but with some degree of detail as well, what it proposed to do in the actual amendments that it was in the process of developing. Rather than go through a detailed list, at this point I would refer you to the next slide, which describes Bill C-60--tabled three months later, at the end of June--and what it sought to do, again very much in keeping with the section 92 report and the status report that had been provided previously.

Canadian Heritage committee  Turning to page 4, Danielle referred to section 92 of the Copyright Act, which required that the government table a report on the operations and provisions of the act. That section also required that once tabled in Parliament, it be referred to an appropriate committee for its study and that the committee would then be required to provide its own report.

Canadian Heritage committee  But that goes well beyond just copyright.

Canadian Heritage committee  I thought they were Canada geese.

Canadian Heritage committee  It was a sculpture, basically, of a flock of geese, so Eaton's decided--

Canadian Heritage committee  --during Christmastime to tie little red ribbons around the necks as part of a publicity campaign for Eaton's. The creator of these geese in that case was a fellow by the name of Michael Snow, and he objected because he felt that his geese were being used in association with a commercial activity that he didn't necessarily sanction.

Canadian Heritage committee  It's personally to the actual creator, because the creator can be different from the rights owner, but the moral right is always with the creator.

Canadian Heritage committee  So licences can relate to a particular work, or for a particular use of a particular work. We call this a transactional licence. It's a one-time use. On the other hand, most collective societies aren't interested in licensing uses by the work. Rather, what they prefer to do is license the whole repertoire of all of the members of the collective, all the rights holders that have joined the collective.