Canada-China Relations Committee on June 3rd, 2024

[Erik Kuhonta]

I'll just say very briefly—I'm not an expert on agriculture or energy—that I follow the political economy in Thailand quite closely. The question of agricultural development is extremely important on the electoral scene. I can see how they would be particularly receptive to investments there, especially given how the current government is planning to invest heavily in agriculture.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Mr. Farmer, I know you probably have lots to say on this one, but a brief comment would be great.

[Wayne Christopher Farmer]

Food security and energy security are two of the most common threads that come out with our discussions with ASEAN governments, and commerce, particularly since COVID-19 and some of the events in Ukraine and the Middle East. In terms of energy, Canadian LNG would be in huge demand in this part of the world when we finally are able to export it as a transition fuel to decrease the dependence on coal for baseload, which is still the main primary fuel instrument in Southeast Asia.

Looking forward, Canadian nuclear technology can play a really strong role, and tremendous interest has sprung up in that recently. We're having a dialogue on that with a lot of the ASEAN states.

On the ag front, certainly there are opportunities all over the shop in terms of Canadian agriculture technologies in areas from aquaculture to dairy to other types of primary and processed foods in the region.

On investment, obviously our Canadian institutional investment into energy infrastructure and agriculture infrastructure is in high demand. As you know, many of the Canadian pensions and other investors have offices in Southeast Asia now, primarily in Singapore but covering the region, so that's been very well received.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Thank you for that.

Mr. Oliphant, did you have a question?

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I'm okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

All right.

Mr. Bergeron.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Mr. Farmer.

Mr. Farmer, a few weeks ago, the Asia Pacific Foundation of Canada shared some thoughts with us from Mr. Ostwald. He was actually part of the first group of witnesses we heard from today.

He gave us some interesting thoughts on implementing Canada's Indo‑Pacific strategy as it relates to ASEAN, the Association of Southeast Asian Nations. One of the very interesting questions he asked was why would the Indo‑Pacific countries choose Canada when there is a lot of competition among those who want to build relationships and achieve economic engagement?

In your opinion, what would Canada's strengths and weaknesses be in dealing with competition in that region?

[Wayne Christopher Farmer]

That's a great question.

Without trying to be too verbose here, I think Canada is seen as modern, as part of North America, but we don't come with the baggage that America has. We're perceived to have some influence over our neighbours in North America in terms of their behaviour. I believe we're looked at as a trading nation, but a smaller trading nation, and when we're working together we have an impact against some of the geopolitics between our larger trading partners and geopolitical players such as China and the U.S.

You have a dynamic in ASEAN with respect to the U.S. defence arrangement. The U.S. Navy has largely kept the peace in the region and kept shipping channels free for trade, while at the same time China has become a growing and very large trading partner in the region. It's debatable which is the largest between China and the U.S. Canada, much like ASEAN, is also walking that line of being, maybe culturally and from a security and economic point of view, tied to the U.S.

The growing future of trade is with China and with the region, and we need to navigate that. Singapore is a great example. Singapore hosts a U.S. naval base, yet it is one of the largest foreign investors in China. It has a lot of cultural ties, obviously being majority ethnic Chinese, and then works through multilateral institutions like ASEAN and elsewhere in order to walk a line of—I'll borrow a word—very pragmatically serving their interests.

I think we can learn a lot from that as a nation. I think our participating in that serves our interests in diversification and security, growing trade and promoting our values in—I'll repeat it—a pragmatic way in this part of the world.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Thank you.

Ms. McPherson, do you have one last question?

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I'll be very quick. I didn't get a chance to ask Mr. Farmer a question, so I thought I would ask him something.

In terms of what we heard from you earlier today, the strategy, really, is when the rubber hits the road, how it's implemented, how it's followed through on. First of all, I would like to know how it's doing so far. It's been in place for a year. How is it doing so far? We've heard from other witnesses that there needs to be more of a long-term forecasting for it.

What does success look like going forward? How are we doing now, and what are the next things that you need to see from the government to know the implementation is effective?

[Wayne Christopher Farmer]

Bear in mind that I think this Indo-Pacific strategy is a culmination of a number of years of work. I was asked to get involved from a private sector point of view. We set up the CABC about 11 years ago now. Leading up to the Indo-Pacific strategy there were a number of years of more regular engagement to address the issue that we have been in and out of the market historically, but there's been a big push in consistency over the last decade.

I think the trade negotiations, from what I understand from the trade negotiating team, are going pretty well. These things don't happen overnight. Sometimes, it's one step forward, two steps back, or two steps forward, one step back, but they are progressing.

I think the strategy of trying to knock some of the challenging issues on the head with Indonesia—which will certainly have an effect on the overall ASEAN discussion, because they are the same matters that I mentioned, and most of them are commercial, by the way—will help to accelerate that. Once that's in place, the consistency of engagement, whether it's through academic exchanges, diplomacy or defence, where we're able to support that people-to-people engagement, needs to be maintained.

If we have concerns in Southeast Asia about the state of democracy, I would say a lot of people in Southeast Asia have concerns about the state of democracy in North America these days, so that works both ways. No one's perfect.

We need to have that continuity. We've taken some good steps with the establishment of an agricultural office in Manila under Diedrah Kelly, who was an ambassador to ASEAN. She's a really incredible talent. There's also Paul Thoppil, who's now our trade liaison in Jakarta. We took a step a few years ago when we started to have an ambassador to ASEAN, which we were lacking. As you noted, Vicky Singmin is our ambassador there now and has also been a big supporter. It's really positive working with her.

We just need to keep this momentum going forward. I think the more deeply we are engaged in ASEAN with trade and on multiple levels, the more influence we will have on those things that might concern us in the region. Preaching from afar in this part of the world, with the cultures that are here, is not very effective. When you're fully engaged and a true partner, you tend to get listened to more.

I know I'm harping on about the same thing, but I think it's following through on the execution and maintaining that engagement, and it has to be a long-term strategy, as you mentioned. I think we've seen that over the last decade, and, hopefully, it will continue.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Wonderful. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Thank you, Mr. Farmer, Prof. Kuhonta and Dr. Marschke, for your time this evening.

I want to thank our clerk, analysts, interpreters and support staff, and everybody who's pitched in with some very excellent questions.

The meeting is adjourned.