Canadian Heritage Committee on June 18th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Could everyone who is chatting please take it outside? I think we're finding it difficult to focus. Thank you very much.

[Manon Henrie-Cadieux]

Thank you for inviting the FCCF to discuss the opportunities afforded by Bill C‑354, which the Bloc Québécois introduced. The bill seeks to amend the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission Act to make it mandatory for the CRTC to consult with the Government of Quebec on Quebec's cultural distinctiveness, before furthering its objects and exercising its powers in respect of aspects of the Canadian broadcasting system. We very much support that. The fact that Quebec would have an additional say in matters relating to its cultural distinctiveness and the CRTC would increase the importance of protecting and promoting French. That, in turn, would benefit us.

The FCCF is asking the government to ensure that its directions to the CRTC help to broaden the impact of measures to support the French language, ranging from supports for francophone production to the discoverability of francophone cultural content. You, our elected officials, just finished working on a modernized Official Languages Act in order to strengthen the obligations set out in the act. It reaffirms the goal of achieving substantive equality between the official languages, and now is the time for action.

Leading up to October's francophonie summit in Paris, stronger Canadian leadership is needed in order to overcome the barriers that threaten the future of the French language and francophone culture all over the world. This bill would go a long way on that front.

As representatives of the vital cultural sector, we are here today to highlight the importance of removing a reference from Bill C‑354. Unlike Quebec, the other provinces should not be called upon to inform the CRTC about matters relating to their French-speaking markets. That is asking them to do the impossible. That misguided notion should be removed from the bill, and groups like ours should instead be designated to represent francophone communities when it comes to these issues. We have legitimate mandates, effective mechanisms for advocacy and the necessary expertise. We have a decades-long track record of helping to shape policies that support the development of francophone communities. We are the only stakeholders with the on-the-ground knowledge to carry out this responsibility.

We would be grateful to you for determining that groups like ours are best equipped to inform the CRTC of what Canada's francophone minority communities need. The choices the country is about to make to support our language and culture are more critical than ever. At stake is the diversity of our cultural expression, its future and influence at home and abroad.

Thank you for this opportunity. I look forward to answering your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

I now go to the Fédération de communautés francophones et acadienne.

Who is going to speak?

[Serge Quinty, Director of Communications, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada]

Ms. Roy will be giving the presentation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Madame Roy, please begin. You have five minutes.

[Liane Roy, President, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada]

Good evening, Madam Chair and members of the committee.

Thank you for inviting us and our colleague from the Fédération culturelle canadienne‑française, the FCCF, to testify before you today.

My name is Liane Roy, and I'm accompanied by our director of communications, Serge Quinty, who is attending the meeting in person and who will be able to answer your questions.

The Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada, or FCFA, is the national voice of 2.8 million French‑speaking Canadians living in a minority situation in nine provinces and three territories. The FCFA is the head of a national network of some 900 French‑language organizations and institutions across the country. Our communities are determined to live in French, and they work to do so every day.

Over the years, we have invested in a number of spaces and sectors necessary for the vitality of our francophonie, including the media and audiovisual space. We have developed a network of francophone community radio stations. We have an educational television channel, TFO, which is present not only in Ontario, but also in Manitoba and other provinces. We are constantly working with Radio‑Canada to ensure that our communities are better represented, not only in the content broadcast by regional stations, but also in national programs and newscasts.

In recent years, two major pieces of legislation in our country have been modernized. The FCFA has taken a leadership role in the modernization of the Official Languages Act. At the same time, we supported the FCCF's work to ensure that the new Online Streaming Act adequately takes into account the realities and needs of our communities. One of the major gains in this regard is the addition of section 5.2 to the Online Streaming Act, which requires the Canadian Radio‑television and Telecommunications Commission, or CRTC, to consult official language minority communities when it is preparing to make decisions that have an impact on them. This clause is essential because, I admit, the CRTC's consideration of our realities has been uneven over the years, and even unsatisfactory in a number of cases.

For 18 years now, there has been a discussion group reserved for dialogue between the CRTC and official language minority communities, the CRTC‑OLMC discussion group. As its name suggests, it is essentially a forum for discussion and not an advisory body. Since October 2023, our communities have been calling for the group to become a proper advisory committee. This transformation is necessary, given the CRTC's new obligations under the Online Streaming Act.

All that said, we agree on the importance of the CRTC conducting much more systematic consultations on the realities of francophone markets in the country, including the cultural specificity of Quebec.

However, part of Bill C‑354 poses a problem, the part dealing with francophone markets outside Quebec. As worded, the bill provides that the CRTC will have to consult the governments of provinces other than Quebec on the realities of the francophone markets there. However, to be perfectly frank with you, the sensitivity of these governments to the francophonie varies. Some governments have difficult relations with their francophone communities. The francophone and Acadian communities and the organizations that represent them are in a much better position to describe the realities of the francophone markets at the CRTC, as required by the bill. For example, the FCFA, the FCCF, provincial and territorial francophone organizations, the Alliance nationale de l'industrie musicale and the Alliance des producteurs francophones du Canada have all been part of the CRTC‑OLMC discussion group for 18 years now. This shows that the CRTC understands and recognizes their legitimacy in speaking on behalf of francophone and Acadian communities. We therefore respectfully ask you to amend Bill C‑354 so that the organizations of the francophone and Acadian communities, and not the provincial governments, are the CRTC's first points of contact for reporting on the realities of francophone markets outside Quebec.

Thank you for your attention. We are ready to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Now we'll go into the question and answer section. I think we're going to have time for only one six-minute round.

We'll begin with the Conservatives and Monsieur Gourde.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Chair, I'm sorry. Are we not hearing from the other witness?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Oh, I'm sorry. Gosh. This is what happens when you don't get any sleep. I'm sorry.

I think we have only two people who presented, so we're now getting to the questions and answers.

I'll begin with Mr. Gourde from the Conservatives for six minutes.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here. This is really interesting.

Ms. Roy, you talked about a discussion group that led to an advisory committee. Do you want to expand on that a little bit? I'm interested in that.

[Liane Roy]

No, that's what we'd like to see. The discussion group is still a discussion group. Since October 2023, community organizations have very much wanted to see this discussion group become a full‑fledged advisory committee.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Roy.

We talked to representatives from the CRTC earlier. They are relatively lukewarm—pardon the expression—to Bill C‑354 because they don't want to give an advantage to the Government of Quebec, or any other provincial government, for that matter. The CRTC prefers to cast a wide net in its consultations and invites everyone who wants to submit briefs to do so, including governments and associations across Canada. It says that it does not necessarily place greater importance on government briefs than on briefs submitted by associations.

Have you noticed the CRTC's way of doing things? Could you comment on that, please?

[Liane Roy]

Thank you for the question.

Indeed, as its representatives say, the CRTC really likes to hold major consultations or public hearings. What would be important for us would be to have more individual discussions with the CRTC. I can let my colleague Mr. Quinty, the director of communications for the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne, tell you more, because he has had a lot more experience with the CRTC on this issue.

[Serge Quinty]

Thank you very much for the question, Mr. Gourde.

Indeed, when the CRTC‑OLMC discussion group meets, the message is always that the CRTC's objective is to prepare us for the upcoming public hearings, during which it will hold real consultations, and during which it will prepare a public record on which it will make its decisions.

That said, the CRTC still has obligations under the new Broadcasting Act, in particular to consult communities before making decisions that could have an impact on them. The CRTC is also required to take positive measures under the Official Languages Act.

We think all that justifies that there be a consultation exercise other than public hearings, in advance of the decision‑making, and that we be able to work together on that.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

The CRTC seemed to want to maintain its independence and impartiality as much as it could. It didn't like the idea of consulting a government before starting a new process. Do you have any comments on that?

[Liane Roy]

I think that the comments in Mr. Quinty's response are quite general, complete and specific on this issue.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Mr. Quinty, the CRTC seemed uncomfortable receiving a government brief and having to go through the process, given its independence and desire for impartiality in its decisions. Do you feel the same way as the CRTC, or are there things that need to be changed?

[Serge Quinty]

The Canadian Radio‑television and Telecommunications Commission certainly sees itself as a quasi‑administrative tribunal. The way it works, consultations take the form of public hearings. It makes its decisions based on the public record that's put together. That's the process that's been in place for a number of years.

The new Online Streaming Act includes new consultation obligations, which are not limited to official language minority communities. They apply equally to indigenous peoples and diversity groups. It's clear that the CRTC is currently trying to figure out how to deal with this new universe.

We've been very proactive at the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada and the Fédération culturelle canadienne‑française. In our view, the new paradigm in which we find ourselves means that we have to make the CRTC‑OLMC discussion group, which has been in place for 18 years, something different. We can't continue doing things as they were done under the old Broadcasting Act, since the new version of the act includes new consultation obligations.

That's where we stand, Mr. Gourde.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

All the organizations would like to see the CRTC's way of thinking evolve, as a result. Given that it currently sees itself as a quasi‑judicial tribunal, could it be more open‑minded about the future?

[Serge Quinty]

Yes.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I now go to the Liberals and Taleeb Noormohamed.

Taleeb, you have six minutes, please.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Mr. Quinty, thank you for being here.

You're aware of the consultations that the CRTC is conducting with Quebec and francophone communities across Canada. Today, the CRTC said that it had never received any complaints about its level of consultation with francophone communities or the province of Quebec.

Can you give specific examples of cases where the views of Quebec or francophone communities weren't taken into account?

[Serge Quinty]

I obviously can't speak for Quebec, since the FCFA's sphere of activity is the francophone minority community. What I can say, with the enormous respect I have for the CRTC, is that we've been telling it for a few years that its CRTC‑OLMC discussion group must be reviewed and its mandate narrowed so that there are more targeted discussions and it is advisory. After all, it brings together a number of groups every year, from each province and territory, that have expertise on the francophonie. They've been the same groups for 18 years, and that fact alone is a testament to the legitimacy that the CRTC recognizes.

We've been saying for a few years now that the way this group's meetings have been conducted isn't satisfactory. We need that discussion group to be more than what it is right now. Considering the consultation obligations that the CRTC now has under the new Online Streaming Act, it's essential that this group evolve in order to better equip the CRTC and enable it to do its work better.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

It's clear that the CRTC will hold consultations under the new act. It said today that it wanted to continue to improve its consultation process. It also said that it had frequent discussions with the Province of Quebec and that it therefore didn't close the door on the point of view of the province or the francophone communities.

As a result, it's difficult for me to see how this bill will improve the process or the way the CRTC discusses matters with Quebec. Today, the CRTC said that it respected the voice of Quebec and that it wanted to continue to meet frequently with that province.

Ms. Henrie‑Cadieux, can you help me understand?