Public Accounts Committee on May 14th, 2024

[Erin O'Gorman]

He was hired as a casual employee.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

He was a casual employee, which means that you, as CBSA president, are responsible and accountable for his actions. Is that correct?

[Erin O'Gorman]

Yes. I signed the letter of offer.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Therefore, the fact that you came to this committee without the information on what information he accessed, I think, is rather troubling, so I look forward to your providing this committee with all information that he accessed during his time as an employee while also being with PricewaterhouseCoopers.

[Erin O'Gorman]

I would point out that there are 16,000 employees in the CBSA, so—

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

I'm going to stop you there. There may be 16,000 employees, but there's only one whom you hired back who was the former president of the CBSA, so there is an increased degree of accountability there.

How many consultants do you currently—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mr. Nater, I'm going to just pause you there. I think you just reiterated the question that Mr. Barrett asked before. You're just reiterating that you're expecting the documents, but Mr. Barrett has already requested them.

Okay, that's fine. It's just so it's clear for the witness as well as for the analysts.

Thank you, Mr. Nater. You have three minutes and 50 seconds.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

There are 16,000 employees. How many consultants currently are hired by CBSA?

[Erin O'Gorman]

I can come back to that. I don't—

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

You told us 68 had been reduced, so I want to know how many in total. You don't have that number at your fingertips here?

[Erin O'Gorman]

No.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

You're able to say “16,000 employees”, yet you've been asked about consultants and you're not able to tell us the total number of consultants here today at a meeting about consultants and consulting practices?

[Erin O'Gorman]

I'm happy to come back with the list of contracts that are currently active in CBSA, but that information is also largely posted. Any contracts over $10,000, I believe, are posted on the website, so that information is available.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

You're able to tell us 68 have been reduced, but you don't tell us the total number.

Mr. Ailapperuma, could you describe this Lansdowne Park event? Was it a dinner? Was it drinks? What was this event?

[Chulaka Ailapperuma]

It was an evening meal. It would probably have ended around 7 p.m.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Was there any discussion with any of the attendees about any of the business dealings with CBSA? Was CBSA business discussed at all?

[Chulaka Ailapperuma]

No. It was a team event. It was discussing ArriveCAN work but not any contracts. Like I said, it was a hard project to work on. We were working long hours, and it was really just socializing with team members.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

The business of ArriveCAN was discussed, then.

[Chulaka Ailapperuma]

I wouldn't say any financial or contractual discussions were had. It was the day-to-day grind of ArriveCAN that was discussed.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

The Conservative Party introduced an opposition motion, calling for the recall of funds paid to contractors who actually did no work.

Ms. O'Gorman, you mentioned in response to a previous question that you were working on it. Are you recommending that any of those funds be reimbursed?

[Erin O'Gorman]

Absolutely. If we've found contractors who were paid who did no work, we will absolutely work with PSPC—

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

You're saying “if”. Have you recommended any funds be reimbursed?

[Erin O'Gorman]

We have not as of yet. We're going through the material.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

To whom did Fred Gaspar report when he was vice-president at CBSA?

[Erin O'Gorman]

Me.